The 10 Best Eurodance Tracks of the Y2K, according to LIZ
What does punk stand for? Actually, what does music stand for in the “noughties,” come to think of it? For some it’s solely pure leisure, but for others it has come to represent much more about our society. Music and politics have always had a strange infatuation with each other, maybe more so than any other art form: from the directly ridiculous (I am thinking Jarvis Cocker usurping Michael Jackson at the MTV awards, Tenanacious D…) to the indirectly sublime (Public Enemy, Kate Bush singing about Nuclear War and the destruction of aboriginal homelands?) to the small steps of many a band (The Pop Group, M.I.A). “Agit-” used to be a well-tagged prefix. Even for popular music, it wasn’t just the predilection of the underground, the alternative.
Nowadays bands that look towards their core environment to present their ideas and their politics are rare; one need only look at the surreality of Lady Gaga and the charts. Moreover there are “indie” bands that hijack other cultures or propagate a strange sense of “psychedelia” – a seemingly generalised movement to the unreal, to abstraction. So more than ever bands that champion their community and ground themselves so deeply within their scene need championing themselves. NO AGE is such a band. Formed from the remnants of Wives – Dean Allen Spunt on drums and vocals and Randy Randall on guitar – around the SST-influenced hardcore punk scene that is literally cultivated within the cultural diaspora of The Smell. A DIY-space that connects the niche of LA and its outlying suburban peoples. Five EPs and two albums (‘Weirdo Rippers’ and ‘Nouns’) in and No Age continue to grow from strength and strength – by their own admission, through their own ideas and ability to learn from making their own mistakes. Their latest EP ‘Losing Feeling’ (download You’re A Target above) offers up variety, from what you would expect of them – effect-laden noise – but also has a strange introspection, a mellower aspect in the middle tracks. And for them, there is no need to reconcile the cacophony with the ambiance; they’re both part of the same thing. That being music. That being No Age.
I was lucky enough to catch No Age play in a Dalston community hall – adorned with DIYed balloons and paraphernalia. Live, their music can be guttural like the best: it seizes you, takes control of you, its cacophony reverberates to your core; yet equally they can present their dense sounds around complex compositional structures which play around with mood. Throughout the set, pace builds and builds to moshing and stage invasion. Somehow it seems fitting that my endearing memory of No Age will be the sound of multicoloured balloons popping as the crowd exits the Trinity Centre. Yeah, that’s No Age.
I wanted to know how you feel your lives have changed since No Age, in the last two years?
Profound, I know…!
Randy: Well, no…
Dean: Haven’t really thought about it, man! Liiiife…
Randy: Yeah, you know, I used to work a lot – I had like a day job and, um, I haven’t really been doing that! You know, I am able to sleep-in some mornings a little bit. Definitely got to see parts of the World I never thought I would see – Japan and South America.
Dean: My ego is HUGE…just kiddin’.
Randy: He’s [Dean] down-to-earth. Now…
Dean: Fuuuuuck you…[laughs]
Randy: I don’t know; it’s just the little things. Definitely the travelling is the biggest difference, as I never got to travel much before…
Dean: …and playing to more people. They’re the two main things.
Yeah? It feels to me that you are so Californian, in a way…do you feel like you’ve become “international” now, like you’re being drawn away from your roots?
Dean: I feel like we’ve played less in California now just because we’ve been travelling a lot. But, I mean, that’s still where we roll. Yeah, and you know, I think, like, we’re playing to more people but also tonight we’re playing to…well, even that’s 200 people, that’s still a lot! But we used to play to like 2 people…5 people…
Randy: Yeah, 15…25 people!
Randy: Yeah, when we first started…
How do you feel The Smell shaped your identity as No Age, or was it more facilitating than influencing?
Dean: I think it’s both. It actually influenced us because of the way it is run and the way our friend – Jim – runs it and the way he works it, you know? I think that is like, sort of, just looking at the business model or something.
Randy: It kind of just taught us: you don’t need to have everything. You can get by with what you need…
Dean: It’s a room and it’s a PA that works the space. You don’t have to go on someone else’s model to do stuff. You can just do whatever feels right. If anything that’s what it taught us, rely on yourself and do your thing.
Is The Smell really community-based, then?
Dean: Yeah, I mean, you know, it’s like a place in LA where everyone goes – well not everyone – but people go and do stuff, make art, make music.
From past experience it seems like it is difficult to get people together in LA, maybe it’s the lack of public transport or something?
Dean: Yeah, I know what you mean because in LA everyone drives. In a way it is easier because everyone can go and meet-up…and the one thing I’ve noticed is that everyone can stay out fucking late; in London it’s like “I’ve got to catch the tube”. Fuck, you know that’s kind of weird. Does New York ever stop running?
Randy: No, no…
Dean: So, it’s like, in San Francisco, “Oh shit the BART stops running at 11.30pm, we have to leave by 11.30pm or something.” I think the biggest thing about The Smell in LA is that it is a SPACE that’s there and you can rely on it. It’s there, so you know it’s solid and you know what it’s about. It’s more interesting stuff, off-kilter – it’s not crappy, Hollywood bullshit.
Unfortunately, I guess that’s the side of LA that’s most visible to people in the UK.
Dean: I was talking earlier to someone about this, when we first started and we were in other bands, “where you guys from…? – LA” And people would be like “that is so weird.” Or, “why do you live there,” or, “it’s weird that you’re from there,” or “it’s weird you’re a Punkish band from there..” No one really understood because no one knew what The Smell was yet. So, now I think people accept it more because there’s a backstory and people go “oh, so there is a community weirdo-ness…ok, so that’s why you guys are there, I guess.” But, before, people used to make fun of us. Sooooo…fuck them! [laughs]
I feel like you seem to live in the past in many ways, in an idealised past what with The Smell, community meet-ups, the importance of community, even the 7” EPs; actually maybe even more it reminds me of childhood…
Randy: Something really is “childhood-like” about The Smell, I think years ago it really felt like there was just us and maybe ten other people just being really excited to be in bands and go to shows all the time. I think there really was a core group of people.
Dean: Yeah, there was like a handful of us that were in the same bands and going to see each other play. I think The Smell, it is as he said: you get a little older, you start going out, and you start having to rely on the bar atmosphere to meet people, to hang out, and The Smell allows you to just exist in a space. And it is just a space, there’s not a bar, so it takes you back to being a kid. When you didn’t go to a show to drink, or maybe you did – well you drink in your car maybe – you want to look at people and meet people and talk. So it does have a little bit of that “going back to when you’re young.”
I have this strange connection in my mind to “organised fun,” I think because I was in things like the Scouts from my childhood to my teenage years, and maybe that’s the idealised sentiment I connect to it…but then you want to rebel when you get older against that, whether that’s productive or not…
Dean: Fuck, you just want to get old at some point…
Randy: …do what all the cool kids are doing…
Randy: But I think there was something about The Smell that was kind of a way almost of “transitioning”…as I think what is hard, when you get older – or whatever we’re saying older is – just the idea that everything is sort of independent and you’re supposed to just make it all up on your own. Find your own friends – do your own thing! There’s something about having a space to go to that facilitates community. You meet people, “hey, I’ve just moved here from out of town…oh, cool, we’re having a BBQ this weekend you should come down.” Or, “my band’s playing next week, you wanna go…Yeah, I’ve just moved here I don’t know anything that’s going on..” I’m thinking of Alan…
Dean: Yeah, we saw him at a protest or some shit. At a march.
Randy: He came to The Smell, I was on the door..
Dean: I saw him at a protest, I remember; we were on our bikes, and he was like “hey, you guys from here?” He’d just moved here and we recommended The Smell. And that’s what sets it [The Smell] apart!
You mean in the respect that it isn’t purely music-orientated; you can really do whatever you want?
Randy: You just go. If you visit New York – and say you don’t know anyone – you’ll go to Lower East Side and you’ll go to Williamsburg. Kind of walk-around. Check shit out. In LA, well now it is a little different as you can go to Echo Park or Silverlake and hang out, but when we were starting you’d go to LA and be like “where the fuck?” – nobody knew where to go! “I guess I’ll go to Hollywood” and Hollywood sucks. So, if someone was cool we’d invite them to The Smell, it was like our little place – it’s not like Hollywood, it’s not lame – it’s actually a really cool space, you know? But you have to search for it, so that’s why a lot of the time people just thought LA was full of actors – which it is – but The Smell is a different world!
Have you ever been anywhere on your travels that feels close to this?
Dean: So weird, that’s a hard thing to compare – we’re from there. But I’ve heard so many people say that there is no place like The Smell, bands that come on tour wishing that there was a place like it. Which is really great, and to think that we had a miniscule part in it all. Like just helping out – we used to help do the door, do the sound; work – we still do the stuff! So to know that we had a part in that, it’s a part of Punk; it’s a lineage of DIY history.
Yeah, DIY was very much associated with 90s identity politics, creating your own political environment…
Dean: There was a club called the “Jabberjaw Café,” it was a house, basically – a big house. But that closed down, and then there was a lack of DIY venues – well there was none. So then The Smell opened a year later with Jim, Ara and Jarrett; they started it and based the model similar to Jabberjaw – any sort of DIY space. It’s stayed around, and if The Smell wasn’t there I’d like to think that someone would open something up, maybe? But no one really had until the last couple of years; The Smell was the only thing like that for so long.
I’ve read an interview with you a while back in which one of you spoke about the importance of being “an individual in the world” – what do you mean by that? Also, how does this fit in with your views with community, as there’s a tradition that distinguishes the two as opposing ideologies?
Randy: Yeah, I think I probably said something like that. Sounds like me! I think I was referencing this idea that the only thing you can really be responsible for is your actions. You do what you do. I can find problems with the world in general, all the time, but when I think about them, the question I ultimately ask is “what can I do about it; what’s my role in this?” So it really is individual responsibility that is in service of a community. Because I think if everyone lives the life that they want to live for themselves you’re bringing something to a community in your way. Obviously you’re always going to be interacting with people. But especially like with other bands, there are a lot of other bands out there but I don’t worry about their bands. I’ve got my own band to worry about. I may happen to be friends with a lot of other bands…
Dean: We worry about our friends’ bands though…
Randy: But you can’t control that. If Nathan is going to get in a fight with Jarrett, or something like that. Even like with Mika Miko, you know, we try and help out and do what we can, ultimately though it is their decisions to do whatever they want to do. I just believe that everyone looks out for themselves then it makes the World a better place…
Well, following from that then, you also spoke about radical ideas and your ideas, have you ever followed through on these ideas?
Randy: Radical ideas, I don’t know!
Didn’t you previously work as a teacher? To me that’s pretty radical!
Randy: Yeah. It’s punk to be a teacher. You can go in there and influence little minds. You can really directly influence future generations of people…maybe more directly than even being in a band. But I think radical ideas: being in a band is radical; being a vegan is radical; just living your life in a way that makes sense to you. Not really following the herd mentality, you know if everybody is driving this kind of car or a car at all, you just do that blindly. Just thinking for yourself and asking questions – questioning everything. “Well does this make sense for me,” and not just accepting that that’s how the world works, so that’s what I’ll do.
Have you ever questioned being in the band?
Randy: Yeah, definitely! I’ve asked what’s the role that you can play in a band. It’s like people assume well you’re a “rockstar” – “I know what you’re all about, you play guitar, go on tour, fuck chicks, and do drugs, I know all about you…” And it’s like, “fuck you, you don’t know me!” Being in a band I think there’s a lot of stereotypes or whatever that goes with that, and I think some people are happier to play into those. I think for us though, we don’t really fall into those categories.
Do you view it as a way of communicating directly with people?
Randy: Playing music?
Randy: I think so, for me music goes beyond language. We were just talking about this; I’ve felt the need to play music – guitar – for half my life. I’m 28 now and there is something I get out of music that I don’t get out of another form of art or communication. It’s bigger than language, I think, because it’s more primitive and there’s just some innate emotional core to music that I don’t find out of anything else in my life. So yeah, I’ve chosen music as my conduit in which to get my ideas out there.
But you’re both involved in lots of other stuff – like art – and recently designing vegan sneakers for Emerica. Do you consider that as an offshoot of the No Age project or part of it?
Randy: I think it is part of No Age; it is part of what we’re doing.
Dean: Yeah, it’s all the same.
Randy: For us, being in a band, I guess like I was saying to you earlier, the stereotype of a band – we’re making our own.
Dean: We asked those questions early on.
Randy: Yeah, it’s like, what do we want to do: we want be able to make films, make art and stuff.
Dean: What do bands do? So, they go on tour and they talk to their manager. Well, no we don’t do that.
Randy: We want more out of life than that.
You want to talk directly to your fans?
Randy: Yeah, right – really just have an opportunity to – I don’t know. What is it, Dean? Is it a world view? Or what is it. Is it like a vision? We feel like things could be different. In the same way that the only way for things to change is to make change happen. And that’s probably what I meant in that interview we spoke about earlier, you do it in small ways. It’s not our goal to start a revolution quickly – or even to start a revolution. But I think what we do have is the ability to make the art that we want to make and do it how we want to do it. Not only playing 21 over shows, making an effort to play shows that have less restriction.
Like the show you’ll be playing later tonight at the Trinity Centre? Random places!
Dean: Yeah, we played last night at the Scala. Pretty normal club and tonight it’s going to be a little more exciting. Everyone I talk to are like “where is it?”, it’s exciting…
It’s a community centre, right?
Randy: Yeah a community centre in Dalston and for us that’s an awesome idea because you get to break-out of the mould or the structure of what is expected.
Dean: Well it’s just challenging the idea of what a band is, or what we’re expected to do in a certain point in our career. People are like “you’re big, you’re going to play a place like that…” Yes. Because we want to. There doesn’t have to be anymore explanation that that. Or the explanation is easy: it’s No Age, that’s it; it’s what we want to do. Like we do a lot of shit that people might say is weird, but I feel like that most of the time when people think it is weird then it’s probably a really good idea. If most people are like that doesn’t sound cool, that sounds lame – we’re like, “good idea!” If you think it’s weird then we’re on to something.
Randy: Because we forget that things are even radical or even that it’s different as we spend more time thinking what we want to do and not what other people are doing. We’re not thinking of something that goes against the grain, we genuinely think of stuff that excites us.
Dean: We’re not trying to be “weird” but…
Randy: …we’re not afraid to do what we want to do, I guess. Maybe that’s weird, maybe that’s not. I don’t know…
Dean: Even like with the packaging and all that stuff, we’ll think of something and if we’re working with Subpop or someone, we’ll mention the idea and usually – that’s what I was saying – the gauge is usually “Huh? Wow! Crazy!” So we’re like, “alright, cool..!”
Randy: What? You mean no one’s ever done this before? You assume everything’s been done before…
Dean: …and realise how lazy most bands are.
It’s a ‘noughties’ thing, I think: cynicism for the future and apathy for change…change is a historic concept almost! You’re stuck in these rigid parameters or something…
Randy: People like to say that…
Dean: …people want to do that, you know?
Randy: There’s something about doing the same thing…
Dean: You grow up and you want to be a “rockstar”. To do that people tell you what to do.
Randy: It’s never been our goal to be a rockstar, it’s to play music – it’s a very different thing.
Dean: It’s interesting in the UK because most young bands we meet already have managers and stuff before they start.
Randy: Before they even have their first show they have a manager.
Dean: I don’t understand that at all, we don’t even have a manager now! It’s just a weird, well it’s not weird, but it’s just what they do. I don’t get it but I am not faulting anyone but it’s not the way we do it.
You think that all these external influences might ruin something embryonic…new?
Dean: No, I feel like it is that people want to buy into whatever they think a band is. This is what bands “do”: bands get a manager, and bands get a tour bus…bands sign to a label, then bands do drugs or something, then we stay at fancy hotels.
Randy: They’re living the accoutrements, living the extra stuff. But, well, your band sucks.
Dean: Just get back to basics…
Randy: Write a decent song and then work out how you’re going to get to shows.
Dean: The thing is all the stuff we’ve been doing and done we’ve learnt so much from it. Shit, we can have a long conversation about it! All the shit we’re doing, if anyone’s doing anything for us, we’ve tried it by ourselves first. Maybe we don’t like doing that, so we’ll hire someone to help. But most stuff, we know we’ve done it, we’ve failed or we’ve succeeded, we’ve learnt a lesson and then we keep going. Then we think of a project, complete it and move on, and that’s any good businessperson or artist or anything. I feel like sometimes bands get lumped into just being a band, like it is its own entity; and it should be looked on as an art and just ideas and concepts. Instead of being “well we need to get a haircut now and put on some eyeliner…rock shake our booty”
It’s funny – I was interviewing Lizzie from Gang Gang Dance a few months ago and she was saying the same thing regarding why they do what they do. Simple: because they want to!
Dean: Exactly! That’s why Gang Gang’s fucking cool…
So the release of the EP, do you release music as and when you do it? You don’t hold on to it?
Dean: We write songs and then figure out what to do, you know? We were starting to write some songs for an LP and then we were just like, “we should do an EP.”
Yeah some people might have the tendency to keep those songs for the album…
Dean: Yeah, they’re great songs but I think it’s almost like, they’re great songs let’s make better songs, then. Right?
Randy: They were coming together, and think we had a little bit of awareness too that we hadn’t put anything out this year. These songs are kind of making sense and we don’t want to rush to make a full length.
Dean: Yeah definitely, and EPs are awesome…a tiny snapshot of what we’re doing.
Yeah, there’s more freedom with EPs.
Dean: Yeah, you can mess about with 4 or 5 songs. Making records are fun, but also making one song is awesome. Concentrating on one song or single or an EP is just as fun and almost like a little breather.
Randy: I think we needed to shake it up and get back into the studio, have fun and not feel like we were making a record.
‘Losing Feeling’ is genuinely solid but the middle part interests me most, the compositional pieces, reminds me of the SST instrumental album of your namesake?
Dean: You mean ‘Genie’ and ‘Aim at the Airport’. We had the main song ‘Losing Feeling’ and we sort of wanted to work around that. That was the thing. We were talking about how we felt we needed an ambient track
It does have a real ambience to it, I even wondered if the title was a sly Eno reference!
Randy: Oh! That’s a good idea, yeah! ‘Music for Airports’…we didn’t think about that. [laughs]
Dean: We had to come up with a name!
Randy: I thought about this attitude that “you’re a target”…aiming and targets!
Dean: Well people have said that. That it sounds very “paranoid”…
Randy: “…they’re losing feeling their targets are being aimed at!”
I’ve read a review, which analogises it to the attack of the nervous system or something!
Randy: People have more meaning than we do; they make it sound more meaningful than it is…
Dean: I find it funny, you know…
Randy: That’s the art of music journalism though, too. That’s where the criticism in journalism flourishes, with that kind of stuff. We’re just the band – we just make the stuff. We don’t have to explain it – it’s someone else’s job to think about it and write about it.
Dean: It’d be cool if reviews didn’t exist. It would be interesting. Yeah, imagine, it is a whole business just built on trying to sell…
Randy: …someone’s opinion on someone else’s music.
Dean: It’s weird.
Randy: Well, music journalism is a lot different than film journalism. Nothing else gets critiqued the same way music does.
Dean: No, film seems like a person reviews it and it is that person’s opinion. Music is more…
Randy: …it’s taken as God’s word. Like you got a bad review that means everyone thinks it is bad. I mean that’s the one person! You don’t get like, “oh that reviewer always reviews like that…” Because I think what’s interesting about music is that it is a more personal art form, which is funny so you wouldn’t think a review would matter that much. But I think there’s something about…I don’t know…you almost have to talk over these personal issues, or something like: “I really like this band because…” You’ve got to talk about it, because in through what you say about music you’re saying more about yourself. It’s the way people hold music so dear and so close to them. It is not like film, where I don’t have to be like, “I really love ‘Zombieland’ it really just did something to me…” It doesn’t say anything about me – “the movie sucked…” But if you like a band, you’d say I really love Joy Division, they’re really awesome and someone might go “that sucks”. You’d get in a fight about it. You own a band, you own a song!
Dean: I mean if you’re going to hang out with someone it’s more likely they’re going to have a Joy Division tee than a Zombieland one!
Randy: Exactly. There’s something about even wearing band tees that has a sense of identity.
Maybe it is that people enjoy the backstory to a band – especially a band like Joy Division, they get embroiled in their personal experiences and turmoil. They relate to it on some level…and maybe that’s the point of music journalism?
Randy: Yeah, the story. That’s why we’re doing this, I guess: what’s the story behind the story!
Well, yeah, but I am not sure how important reviews are as music is instinctive anyway…or it should be.
Dean: The record labels hire someone to send the reviews. They’re just trying to sell it. Hoping a review will sell a handful of things. That’s all it is! And the people are paid to review it or given it for free to review it so again it is about money.
Just getting back to your politics, do you feel that you ever get misrepresented as musicians because of your strong beliefs?
Dean: No, I think we’re definitely musicians more than we’re political activists or anything. We rarely make big statements. We sort of do our thing by example, but no one’s ever been like “you guys are musicians, I thought you were activists!”
Well not activists!
Randy: That we get lumped in with those “political message” bands.
Dean: But what bands have political messages these days, though?
Randy: Rage Against The Machine?
Dean: You’re talking about the nineties…do Green Day have a political message?
There are certain people in the music community who may come across as preaching…
Randy: Right, but I think if you look at the music it is never really there. I look at it as everyone has the right to have their own political views and they should express them. It’s not wrong to be conscious or attempt to have some consciousness of the world outside of you because there is shit going on and decisions are going to be made for you unless you make them for yourself. Especially in America over the last 8 years and coming into the now, if anybody says they’re not political it just means they’re putting their heads in the sand. Politics are being put on you whether it’s gay marriage, abortion or going to war. These are all being done as Americans. They’re being done in our name: this is America, we’re Americans. If you’re a citizen of some country and you think politics isn’t for you then you’re just mistaken. You don’t need to be a musician to say that, you could be a plumber, a teacher, work in a bar. These rules and laws affect you. This is our life and it’s all being decided for us. So to have some iota of consciousness, to think about like “should I vote for something; is this is what’s really going to be decided” – you don’t have to be a scholar about it; it’s just important for everyone to at least be aware. That’s the thing I don’t know everything, at some part of the day I am just some dumb musician who gets up on stage, has a beer; I am just like everyone else so I don’t have a particular insight. I’m not Bono with millions of dollars trying to feed starving children, I’m just me. But I think in the same way that most of the world isn’t Bono! It’s part of you living your life – it is part of me living my life. I carry some sense of consciousness – a tiny bit – and I am not afraid to talk about it.
Dean: But from a purely musical sense, since I write the lyrics and stuff, I don’t ever try and be political. I think music is a sort of escape…We’re conscious of it, and I think you have to be conscious of it, and you have to make efforts to change things that you don’t like and look at politics and look at the world. I think you have to be political and stand for what you want, and the music we make it’s not for us to say like “hey…blah blah blah.” It’s for us to say, this is what we do and this is our life – watch how we roll, look at how we do things.
Randy: It’s personal expression…
Like personalising your music…
Dean: Yeah, and a lot of the time people are like “I read you’re vegan and now I’m vegan….” Or days were they’re glad we talked shit about Prop 8 or gay marriage at a show. It’s little things like that – it’s living our lives.
Randy: We’d be doing this regardless…
Dean: But I think there aren’t political bands anymore. There’s a big-scale of political bands like U2, but they’re full of shit.
Back to the music, is there a new album in the pipeline?
Dean: We are writing…yeah
Randy: The rest of the year we’ll be in our studio or in our own practice space just writing.
And more touring?
Dean: We’re finishing up the current dates and we’re opening for the Pixies in the US.
Randy: That’s really fun, then we’re just trying to stay at home and live a life.
Dean: Live and make our record!
Randy: Then come back out next year when the record comes out – next Spring/Summer.
Do you have recommendations from LA, from your travels?
Dean: Infinite Body’s great. High Places are from LA now.
Randy: Liars have a new record coming out that was made in LA. Lucky Dragons, as well.
Dean: Protect Me. Most of it is like super-small…underground stuff.
It’s a good way of garnering some exposure, I guess…
Yeah because people probably don’t “actively” search for music these days, really…
Randy: You’re right.
Dean: And it’s easy to copy and paste it.
Maybe that’s going back to earlier, to what we spoke about with The Smell: people coming together “in person” without the internet! Actively looking for something good.
Dean: The Smell’s a funny place as it has a website but it just lists the shows, there’s no phone or anything. I remember when The Smell didn’t have a website and no phone, and you would just go there and look at the list, write it down and remember it. Then you’d just hang.
Quite mythical really?
Dean: When I think about it, that sounds insane these days, to just go to a place – I didn’t even know there was a show on. I’d just go and hope there was someone there. Look in and work out what was going on, “oh, wow a band’s on tour, it’s Black Dice, it’s like 1999.” That’s how it was, and I think we still look at the world that way a little.
Yeah and sadly most people don’t look at the world that way anymore..
Dean: That’s fine; I mean I don’t want to be a dinosaur or anything…
But sometimes it’s good to be a dinosaur!
Dean: Yeah! Cool, well, thanks man, that was good.
Randy: Thanks, that was interesting.